Inside Season Two: Integration, Not Escapism

Season Two of Divergent States is about something simple and surprisingly rare: exploring altered states without losing touch with reality.

In this preview episode, 3L1T3 and Bryan share two short moments from upcoming conversations that define the tone of the season ahead.

In the first, Shane Mauss reflects on how psychedelics open people to awe—but also to certainty, conspiracies, and belief systems that can replace reality if no one pushes back. In the second, Cesar Marin explains why presence and human connection are the real work of integration, not endless chasing of peak experiences.

Together, these moments capture what Divergent States has always tried to do: hold space for wonder without drifting into delusion, depth without losing grounding, and exploration rooted in real human connection.

Patreon supporters get extended versions of these conversations, including sections that don’t survive algorithm-friendly edits. But this preview is here for everyone—because harm reduction, presence, and honest conversation shouldn’t be paywalled.

Welcome to Season Two.

Chapters

00:00 – Welcome back & season context
Introducing Season Two and why this year matters.

00:28 – What Divergent States actually is
What the show is: harm reduction, not hype or spiritual theater.

01:05 – Shane Mauss: Awe, science, and belief systems
The “ghost crocodile” and microscope analogy.

04:49 – Why psychedelics create both insight and delusion
Reflections on pattern-seeking and certainty in psychedelic spaces.

05:20 – Cesar Marin: Presence as integration
Connection, mushrooms, and staying grounded in real life.

07:17 – The power of daily human connection
Kids, texts, meditation, and showing up.

08:55 – What Divergent States is really about
Awe without delusion; depth without losing touch.

09:15 – Patreon & how to support the show
Extended cuts, deeper conversations, and why it matters.

10:10 – Harm reduction & Zendo Project
Why we partner with them and what the code supports.

10:50 – Closing & Season Two welcome
Personal sign-off and transition into the new season.

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Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:14.776)
Hey, welcome back to Divergent States. This is Elite, back with Brian. What's going on, man? Hey, we're Nothing, not a lot. Doing this little preview episode, kind of get it out. Before we get into this, really, I want to kind of take a second to get some context for this season coming up. Right.

So,

Speaker 1 (00:28.942)
Yeah, because it's pretty great.

So as you guys know, I'm the founder and longtime steward of r/ Psychonaut, the largest psychedelic harm reduction community in the world. For more than a decade, I've spent thousands of hours reading trip reports, moderating conversations, and watching what actually helps people integrate these experiences without losing grounding. The show is an extension of that work. It's not really about hype or spiritual theater or selling anything. It's about how psychedelics actually change the mind and how people can explore that without losing themselves.

So for the season two premiere, I want to play two short moments from two upcoming conversations to sets the tone for really what everything we're doing this year. The first is from our conversation with Shay Moss. This is from the Patreon only section of the episode, which means you will not hear this part on the public release. That's right. Yeah. Well, we're going to be talking about why psychedelic spaces drift so often drift into conspiracies and magical thinking. So we'll take a listen to that and be right back.

A very short history of life by this guy, Henry G. 4.6 billion years and 12 pithy chapters. It's like, you can just read the first few paragraphs and it's just like, talking about how it's just like poetically written, how, how our star came into being and then building and how early life formed and

I cried many times, like reading this book that's from like a paleontologist, you know, this sense of awe and wonder, actually reading like Darwin's own words recently, like, wow, this is like so special that I get to have this experience. And so I think that there's something in all of us that wants to, you know, connect and experience that sense of awe and hope and wonder and an appreciation for.

Speaker 4 (02:20.49)
our existence. So it's always like tough to, don't want to shit on people's things. And then there's a certain point where you go like, well, but hold on. I respect your like ghost, crocodile belief system. And I'm happy that, and it does like a lot of interesting things and it helps. It was like a way that, know, to like stay away from that one water source for a while. The ghost crocodiles in there before, before.

You know, humans, humans understanding of infectious disease is relatively new. You know, you need a microscope to see these things. so again, it's not intuitive, but at a certain point you go like, well, you know, we see, we now have like microscopes and we know that like children and elderly are at risk of drinking this water. So we're going to put in like a water filtration system here and, and you know,

With respect to your ghost crocodile, you can still have all that. But then if like ghost crocodile person wants to break the microscope and the, and the filtration system, because they think it's all a big cloud against or whatever else. And some big conspiracy. That's when I got to start taking issue, know, that's what I'm like, well, I'm, sorry. There's like, there's brass tacks. There's life. There's there's.

Damn atheists.

Speaker 4 (03:40.692)
Lives on the line and we can all learn together and you can look in the microscope for yourself if you want to. But if you don't want to look in the microscope and you just want to break it because it protects your belief system, then I, you know, I have to take issue with that.

It kind of reminds me what was the quote, the psychedelics are to the mind what the microscope is to microbiology.

Yeah. Yeah. I do think you can access levels of your subconscious that you don't normally have access to.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a firm believer in like, you know, like what was it Watson and Crick came up with the double helix idea of DNA while on LSD. So

I think as a creative aid and forming new connections, I think really importantly to this whole conversation, the idea of like being able to get outside of yourself to the greatest extent that one can. You still bring your own baggage and shit into the trip, but you know, it's the closest to getting outside of our normative perspective as one can have. And I think that's incredibly beneficial.

Speaker 2 (04:48.888)
So that moment captures something I've seen thousands of times in psychedelic communities. Psychedelics open us up to awe, but they also open up people to certainty and pattern seeking that can really replace reality if no one pushes back. So now we're going to listen to a moment we had with a conversation with Cesar Marin. This part's going to be in the public release, but it belongs right next to what Shane just said. Do you find any special integration needs coming from the older community?

That's a great question. And what I have people do, because it's a sense of presence and connection, for me, the most powerful tool of integration is one, being present. You have to be present. If the medicine has always taught me something, is that everything happens right now. Nothing happens yesterday, and nothing's gonna happen tomorrow. It's all gonna happen right now. So when you have that, right, when you have that presence of mind, and the other one is connection.

connection to other people, right? Mushrooms don't live by themselves. A mushroom could never exist if it just grew up in a field by itself and then had no one to connect with their mycelia and never would die. It wouldn't even flourish. It wouldn't even bud. So what type of connections are you making? So for me, that integration, and because of mushrooms, mushrooms are my medicine. They're my friends. They're the ones that open the door for me. They're the ones that really connect me to these other people. My biggest integration in what I tell people is

connection and presence. And the biggest tool for me, for people to do, is connect to the people who are close to you. So in my case, I have three kids, right? My oldest son's birthday is November 8th. So at 11.08 in the morning, I'm present, because I'm present for him, and I connect with him by sending him a text every day. A text or little emoji, or how are you doing? The same thing with my middle child, the same thing with my youngest child. Over 50,

Those connections are important. And whether that text is to your mom on the date of her birthday, whether it's to your partner on the day of her birthday, whether it's your business partner on the anniversary of when you guys broke, you know, slab on your building, those connections, right? That present moment of right now, I can do this right now. That's where integration really, for me, and again, I always talk from experience because my integration might not work for someone else.

Speaker 3 (07:16.674)
The same way that my dosage might not work for someone else or my protocol might not work for someone else, right? But me giving people that tool of that presence of mind, because life isn't that bad because I'm connecting to my friend or life is not bad because I'm connecting to my wife or life isn't that bad because I'm connecting to my kids and I'm being present for them. Man, that takes such a weight off of your chest that you can live that present and connect.

that you live like a true mushroom. That's when the mushroom really flourishes, no? That's when it comes out and all the colors come out and the spores come out, when it's connecting, when it's present. So for me, that's the biggest tool for integration. If you can implement that and that goes through, hey, you know what? Meditation. And I love how people tell me, I don't have time, dude. Are you serious? I don't have time to meditate. Have you seen my schedule? Have you seen my Google Calendar, what it looks like? And I'm like, guy.

There's literally 1,440 minutes in the day. If you don't have 10 minutes to sit outside, shut your brain up, and just listen to the birds or listen to the cars or listen to the airplanes or just be present, then take your Google Calendar, blow it up, and start from scratch and start with just those 10 minutes, because it's gonna change your life.

So yeah, those two moments together are what Divergent States is all about.

absolutely. These are really fantastic interviews and everything that we put out publicly for the free audience, you we try to make sure that all of this is great. But for those of you that are willing to support us and join us on Patreon and take that step just a little bit further to keep this podcast going, we try to make sure that we get you quality content that's not only fun, but like exciting to listen to.

Speaker 2 (09:03.882)
Exactly. We're trying to that, you know, kind of let you experience the awe without delusion, depth without losing touch with reality, exploration grounded in human connection. Yes. So if you guys want the full Shade Mouse conversation, including the extended section you just heard, that episode's already live on Patreon. Patreon supporters get longer cuts, deeper conversation, and parts that really just don't fit into public algorithms.

You can support the show and get access at patreon.com slash divergent states

And for you freebies out there, again, we love you. So if you are not in a position to join us on Patreon or maybe you're someone who doesn't really sign up for Patreon, whatever it is, there are still ways that you can support us. You can like, share, give us ratings, anything that you can. You share it with your friends. Tell people about it. If you know someone that's curious about psychedelics and hasn't really dove into it, if you're...

This is just something you genuinely love and you know other people that love it. Please share it. Help us get the message out there and get more people on the show.

Right, absolutely. There's other ways too. You can check their link tree. We've got Buy Me a Coffee in there. You can support us on Buzzsprout. DivergentStates.Buzzsprout.com. I've got monthly subscriptions there too. Also, if you guys are wanting to explore altered states,

Speaker 2 (10:32.47)
Remember harm reduction matters. That's why we partner with a Zendo project. They train psychedelic peer support volunteers and help people through difficult experiences without judgment. So using our code helps fund that work and helps provide scholarships for people who want to get trained. You'll find the link for that in the show notes. Brian, anything else you have to add before we close this out?

You're beautiful. And I think you kick ass.

Perfect. Thank you for being here, and welcome to season two of Divergent States.

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