Seven Principles of the Psychonaut w/ Valerie Beltran

What does it mean to be a responsible psychonaut?

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down again with Valerie Beltran, licensed therapist, harm reduction expert, and educator with the Zendo Project, to unpack 7 core principles for navigating psychedelic states with intention, safety, and compassion.

We break down everything from testing your stash to dismantling your ego, and talk about how these powerful tools can help us grow: not just as individuals, but as a culture.

🔑 Topics we cover include:

• Harm reduction, substance testing, and staying safe
• What makes a psychonaut different from a recreational user
• Ego dissolution vs. ego inflation in the psychedelic space
• The beauty of Zendo-style peer support
• Psychedelic diversity, inclusion, and ethical use
• The soul quadrant: psychedelics as a call to community action
• Integration as an everyday spiritual practice
• Why set, setting, and intention still matter more than hype

Valerie brings grounded wisdom and therapeutic insight, while 3L1T3 and Bryan keep it real with stories, skepticism, and a few laughs about LSD philosophy, festival weirdness, and Rainbow drum circles.

🧠 This is a great starting point for new explorers and a reminder to seasoned trippers that we all need to check our egos at the door sometimes.

🎧 Music by Flintwick
 🪬 Support the show + get the bonus after-show with Valerie at patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Email: divergentstates@gmail.com

#Psychedelics #Psychonaut #Integration #ZendoProject #DivergentStates #PsychedelicTherapy #SetAndSetting #HarmReduction #MAPS #EgoDeath

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:18 - Valerie Beltran’s Background
00:01:37 - Updates from the Zendo Project
00:02:24 - Psychedelic Legalization News
00:03:35 - Psychedelic Science 25 Conference
00:05:19 - The Seven Psychonaut Principles
00:05:50 - Principle 1: Harm Reduction & Personal Safety
00:08:42 - Preparation (Set & Setting)
00:14:21 - Principle 2: Do No Harm to Others
00:16:07 - Principle 3: Community & Connection
00:21:36 - Principle 4: Diversity & Inclusion
00:25:59 - Principle 5: Ego Awareness
00:31:18 - Principle 6: Integration & Reflection
00:38:18 - Princliple 7: Advocacy & Social Justice
00:44:47 - Closing Remarks

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Transcript

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0:18

Hey everybody, welcome back to Divergent States, the unofficial r/Psychonaut podcast, back again with Bryan. Hey, what's up, man? Doing all right, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How about yourself? not too bad. Just, you know, same as always, getting ready for stuff. You know, last week we'd, or a couple of weeks ago, we'd had Valerie Beltran and Chelsea Rose from the Zendo Project, and I thought it'd be a good idea. to invite Valerie back. And Valerie, how are you doing? doing great. Thanks so much. Yeah, we appreciate being here again. No problem. Yeah. Glad to have you. kind of thought we'd do like a, you know, altered States one-on-one kind of episode. There was, you know, I kind of wrote this, thing down and I guess one of my grandiose moments, the seven psychonaut principles and, know, yeah. So Valerie's a, licensed marriage family therapist. she also works real closely at the Zendo project. So figured having her here to kind of, you know, if I say anything, kind of. out of the way, she can snip it in the butt and help us maybe develop it even a little bit. but yeah, Valerie, things at the Sendo project been going? Yeah, things are going great. We just hired an education director, so it's going to be really helping us launch some extra courses that we've been teaching. We currently have the sitting and integration training, which just started another run on Monday night. So that's going to be running every Monday night for the next three weeks. And then we'll run that again in July and then a couple more times this year. And now we have the opportunity to start creating other trainings for like crisis response providers. other trainings as well, we're really starting to launch more into education. Yeah, that's, we were actually, talked about that the first time in the last episode about maybe us getting in on that. It's just our schedules, both of us, been both hectic trying to figure out which one of us can do it. Yeah, there's, I mean, other big news coming up. There, what was it? Oregon, or not Oregon, but New Mexico and Maine both legalized this week. Silice Ivan for adult use. Kind of big news. which I got to give a big shout out. New Mexico is my home state. I'm from New Mexico. So really huge. We know some of the people who are involved in helping that legislation be passed. Very proud of them and their efforts. So yeah, everybody go check out Soul Trip. It's another podcast. S-O-L-T-R-Y-P. I'll be on it someday. But yeah, they're doing a lot to help that in New Mexico. Yeah, they had some kind of like, what was it? No dry in them, you know, but I think that was really besides that it was pretty good regulations seems like. Yeah, exciting stuff. Right. Yeah, it was Maine, I think, that had another one. And yeah, it's kind of cool. I Missouri also had one too for veterans. And the VA passed something too where they're going to start doing MDMA therapy through the VA, I think it was. Yeah, which is amazing. I know. So it's really crazy. Just all the news and all this stuff just coming all at the same time. It's amazing. So yeah. And then we've got psychedelic science 25 coming up in what? Two months, 66 days from now, I think. Wow. It's crazy. Yeah. We got our press passes. They're generous enough to help us out with that. so we're just right now we're raising funds, trying to get funds raised so we can take the trip out there and meet everybody. So. You'll see us on the street with like little cardboard. Signs like will trip for change, please We go stand out by the highway Denver bus Yes I'm sure everybody will care about us. So we'll like what's it like Lloyd Christmas? It's okay. I'm a podcaster We totally need to get a mini bike Reenacting. Good times. Yeah, but so guys, we're going to take a listen to some music. We're going come back. And I think we're going to get into an Altered States 101 episode. And we'll have a little talk after, and we'll talk to you then. you you you guys, welcome back. Um, yeah, I figure we'll go through these, uh, these one by one, maybe a little bit. We can talk about each one as we go. And, uh, like I said, I think it's just a good, it'd be a good resource just for people out there kind of wondering, you know, am I ready for this or what I need to do? And so my first principle that I wrote down, um, was harm reduction and personal safety. That's a prior to prioritize your own safety by testing your substances. whatever you're doing, which, you know, what's bunk safe. That's Yeah, we're bunk police. DanceSafe, right. Both those are great resources. They've got some in Europe, I think. I've heard of a couple, like just wherever you're at. Get your stuff tested. Well, for us, us prudes, what is, what is this place that you're talking about? DanceSafe.org, isn't it? Yeah, Dan's... Emerson.com, I always forget that, but yeah, DanceSafe, they provide testing kits for lots of different substances. Like, I'm pretty sure it's like most substances you can get, at least that would be recreationally in use. Yeah, you can just order these test kits. They're very easy to use, which I love, they're super user-friendly. Often it's like just being able to take a homogenous sample from whatever you're using, just try to mix it up as best you can so you can be representative of what you're using. You take a small amount... And usually you just take little droppers full of liquid and just drop it on, wait a couple seconds, see what the color is, and you just look it up online to see is this definitely the substance that's supposed to be? Is it adulterated in some way? So that just helps keep people as safe as possible. Gotcha, gotcha. I mean, aside from fit and all, what are the other substances that you're looking for that you don't want? It's a good question. I think, especially with a lot of the substances that we test with DanceSafe, it's just looking to make sure that what you're getting is what you think. Like, you might be wanting pure MDMA, and it might have a little bit of a different kind of amphetamine mixed in or something that's going to make it speedier. Yeah, this isn't my area of expertise, but just making sure that what you ordered is, or what you got is what you ordered. Right, that's what I would probably pitch it and say. I yeah, if you want MDMA or you think you're getting MDMA, you want to make sure you're getting that and, you know, not what was the bath salts that were real popular for a while, you know. But yeah, I mean, that's the importance of testing because also dosage is important. The whole dosage could be totally different for one substance to another. So, yeah, that's. Potency is also the important thing to test for. There are testing kits out there by Miraculix. They help you test for mushrooms to see the potency of the batch of mushrooms that you have. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. What was that for the mushrooms again? That's a good one to know, yeah, for sure. OK, yeah. I think the next one down on that is prepare. And so still under the goal, the harm reduction and personal safety. Prioritize your safety by testing substances. And the next on that is prepare your set, your mindset. your setting, your environment, and have a guide with you or access to a helpline like Fireside. Actually, before we go to that one, can you say a little bit more about dos? Yeah, because I think it's important that people are also aware of how much they should be taking and there are often like recommended dosages, but it's really subjective and for people to understand their own personal tolerance or especially sensitivity and for people who have no idea what their sensitivity might be if they're totally new to a substance or to substances in general, questions that I often ask people if they want to consider. is are you somebody who usually takes like the recommended dose of aspirin or Tylenol or some kind of painkiller? Or do you find yourself needing to take more? Or do you feel like that's overwhelming that totally knocks you out or you get sick from it? So maybe you're more sensitive and might want to take less. So looking at like painkillers or taking like NyQuil or over-the-counter stuff or any kind of prescription if you've ever had that, what is your usual reaction to something? That helps determine your dosage a lot more. I think a lot of times people will err on the side of just going off of body weight or like, somebody who's a similar body size took this amount, so I should probably do the same. But I think it's much more reliable to go off of your sensitivity because I've seen people who are very large be incredibly sensitive to substances and vice versa. So you really have to off body weight. Something you kind of along that same lines, like they've done studies and how redheads have a little bit higher pain sensitivity. Yes, I mean, there could be so many variables that you don't even think about that could vary from person to person. Another point along the same lines that I didn't think about also knowing what you have also helps with across. know, the, cross sensitivities or like MDMA and alcohol or cocaine and alcohol, cocaine and MDMA. The harm reduction is that it's super important to know what you have so that, because mixing MDMA and cocaine can be deadly. Yeah. So just knowing that they... you really do have MDMA or you really do have whatever these substances can really, they could save your life. So that's why you need to know what you have. Yeah, absolutely. So, but yeah. One last quick thing too about body weight and knowing your dose, think a lot of times also people think that it's much more tied to body weight, which for some substances, body weight is an important factor, like for MDMA, ketamine for some substances, but for a lot of other substances, especially LSD, body weight doesn't really matter. And for psilocybin, it seems to be a slight factor, but not necessarily a large factor. think they're still determining exactly how big of a factor it is, but For lot of substances, think that's less reliable. So really focusing on your sensitivity. I think it's funny that you mentioned that because we see that in the cannabis industry as well all the time without with edibles. There'll be folks that don't feel anything from it all and people who can barely take five milligrams. So. Yeah. Well, so yeah, I mean, there's, so much important to just that that's, and that's why I put that up as the first, just a kind of under the very first setting of, of harm reduction and personal safety testing is going to be your like, know what you're going to get. in kind of further down kind of what you had touched on before, consult a healthcare professional, know your physical and mental limits and use psychedelics responsibly. That's another kind of principle I'd added under harm reduction, but it goes back to, you know, was saying that, you know, if you know that you're going to take about the normal amount of aspirin, you know, then you're going to know. And if you feel comfortable talking to your doctor about that, maybe that's something you talk to your doctor about. Yeah, which I've also noticed that a lot of doctors are becoming really open to these questions. think doctors, psychiatrists are recognizing that this is just happening. Like mainstream recreational substance use is quite ubiquitous these days. And I think instead of people resisting it, and a lot of people have gotten enough education around it that they are able to answer more basic questions. another thing is don't be afraid to talk to your prescribing physician, to your doctor, especially when you're on a pharmaceutical. I think that's the other big thing around personal safety is if you are taking an SSRI, if you're taking other kinds of medications, do you know if that could be a possible contraindication? Do you know what the possible effects could be? And don't be afraid to ask. Right, and I mean, you have that doctor-patient confidentiality. They're not going to snitch you out. Yeah. And then I think the final point within the harm reduction and personal safety is approach these substances with respect as tools for growth and not just recreational entertainment. And I think that's kind of what sets the psychonaut apart from just the everyday recreational user. We're not just doing it out there just to have fun and see the pretty lights. We're also looking at it as tools to promote personal growth. personal growth and collective growth, So it's like furthering humanity, furthering, it often helps with their connectedness to nature, to community, to being able to like use what's coming to us also to benefit others. exactly tools for growth within the community as well. So yeah, that was the first kind of my first thought. thought the prior principle or whatever you want to call it is just harm reduction and personal safety. And I think all those kind of embody that. the benefit, yeah, harm reduction. feel like that's why I put that at number one, because it's the most important for yourself and others. And so for my second one though is do no harm to others. Never use psychedelics to manipulate or coerce anyone emotionally, mentally or sexually. Respect the boundaries and consent of others at all time, ensuring a safe and supportive environment. And I feel like that's, I mean, that should be just common sense for everyone. You know, you'd never, never use anything to coerce anyone and respect boundaries of consent of everyone at all times. It's just a good basic rule for life there. So yeah, do no harm to others. The next one is connect community and connection. Foster a sense of community by supporting each other through shared experiences and challenges. And I think that's That's an important part and I think we do that really well on Psychonaut is being able to share your experiences. If you have a hard time, you got a bad time or you just had a particularly challenging trip or something. Or even I don't know, like Valerie, you guys with the Zendo project, you do that a lot. Just that's a lot of what you guys do. Yeah, I was just doing a talk on Monday night at the Portal Marin in the Middle Valley, California. Something that kept coming up with audience questions and something we were speaking about, I think, quite a passionate selling point for Zendo Project, for getting involved with Zendo Project. We don't even intend for it to be a selling point, is that so many people will come to the Zendo as a guest because they're in need of support and they end up connecting in such a deep experience with their sitter. and they realize that it's not only it's a safe place to feel difficult or negative emotion that they otherwise might feel embarrassed to show around other people or might not want to burden other people or might feel like they're going to harsh somebody's burn if they're, you know, expressing something negative or difficult, you know, it's not only a safe space in which to express that. In addition, it's actually a space where that can lead to deeper connection. that people can actually have, like some of the best experiences that people have at their festivals have been at the Zendo when they have either needed support or been giving support as a sitter. Because it's such a deep emotional connection that you're able to share with people where you're witnessing them in their most raw emotional state. You're connecting with people and just such a beautiful emotional connection. And where else in life do we get to have those kinds of connections? You know, it's rare, especially with strangers, that we're able to drop in with each other like that. And maybe if we're lucky, we can share those kinds of deep emotional states with partners, with friends, but oftentimes people don't get to do that. So to be able to have this space that we've created where it's a safe sanctuary, where people can come and show up in their most raw vulnerable states, and that that is not only safe but celebrated, and deeper connection can spring from that, it's absolutely magic. Yeah, and I've kind of seen that even firsthand. You know, you guys did the AMA last month and saw someone come in and I think Chelsea was talking about how you guys probably wouldn't be able to go to Zendo this or .Zendo to Burning Man this year because just, you know, the fundraising and getting everybody there. somebody from the subreddit came in and was like, hey, I'd love to be able to help you guys out and see if I can get you there. And I was like, holy crap. It's like I've just seen the person the first hand goodness that you guys can do and I'd love to be able to make sure you guys can be there. And I was like, that's amazing. It's incredible and we get that all the time. We had a guest who came in just this past Burning Man and the next day came and donated$10,000 to us because he was so touched by the experience and by the fact that we offer these services. We have that all the time and a resounding amount of our sitters started out as guests themselves and then returned not only because they want to pay it forward but because they enjoyed the experience so much and they want to be able to have that unique kind of connection. and sit in that compassionate care with people. Yeah, and that's something that, I mean, you can't fake. It's there and you got to have that at a festival especially. can't fake that, especially as somebody that had velocity or something. They're going to catch that right away. yeah, that's something huge, part of Zendo and Maps and a lot of the... lot of the companies and places out there that really, and I really respect is that, just the community and bringing the community together. And so yeah, that's number three, the community and connection. And another point of that is share knowledge, insight and resources openly and respectfully just to strengthen the collective. That's kind of what Zendo does and what Psychonaut does. And a lot of places we share these resources and get the word out for everyone. Yep. No, what you were saying before though about like the connection that people have, like it doesn't surprise me that people come back after having been in there is in need that they come back and they want to provide the same thing to somebody else. I mean, I know, I'm pretty sure everybody that's part of this call right now has had a bad trip at some point and they suck, dude. It's really vulnerable. It's like, it's super scary. So to have somebody that can just be there for you while you go through that. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, like fireside or Zendo or, you know, it's great to have somebody just there that kind of can be there in that space with you. Yeah. So yeah, and I, so that was number three. I feel like, you know, lot of these like diversity and inclusion is a huge one. This is number four, embrace diversity by recognizing and valuing different perspectives, backgrounds, and experiences and acknowledge while the effects of these substances may vary for each individual, all journeys are valid and meaningful. So even though, you know, an atheist agnostic might take acid and have his own trip, same with a Gnostic theist or, you know, somebody into... Just whatever the, you know, the native American churches or I'm sorry. Hold up. Hold up. You said agnostic theist atheist. You can't have you. You can't know, you know, you can be a Gnostic the atheist. No, no, I believe you. I just wasn't going to let you off the hook for saying something so fucking smart. Yeah. Slow down and say that again. Yeah. And agnostic atheist, guess, if I were going to break it down and just like classical philosophy, philosophy terms, by the way. A little disclaimer, I'm not a fan of philosophy. It's a whole lot of saying nothing with big words. I hate to admit that because I mean, like Alan Watts and Ram Dass and all these great philosophers in our community, everybody's like, I love it. I've never been able to really just get into it and like sit and listen to these. To me, being a psychonaut is charting your own journey. instead of, you know, I love that these people have written their map down and told us what they found from their journey. But part of this, I feel like, but being a Psychonaut is charting your own journey. You're just more an applied philosopher, an embodied philosopher of like living your philosophy instead of being in your head about it. Right, maybe more of a Stoic approach or a pragmatic approach. so, but yeah, and in classic philosophical terms, agnostic just refers just to knowledge. So a gnostic would be knowledge of a god or gods, where an agnostic would be without knowledge of a god or gods, like asymptomatic, you're without symptoms. And atheist versus theist is belief. in a God or without belief in a God. So yeah, you can be a Gnostic theist and agnostic theist and agnostic atheist and agnostic theist and everywhere in between. it's, you know, knowledge is a subset of belief and that's where you get into all the, you know, the fun philosophical stuff. What is belief and what is truth? And yeah, that's, that's, yeah. Save that for the trip. So yeah. and You're right that a lot of my philosophy and stuff that I get is very much a pragmatic approach of what you can actually use on the ground. the boots touch the road, I guess, or the rubber touches the road. yeah. But the, yeah, diversity and inclusion, different perspectives, backgrounds, all journeys are valid and meaningful. So yeah, an agnostic atheist can have a trip in that even if it's just the psychopharmacological effects of the substances or if someone has divine insights, they're all equally as valid. Thank you. Yeah, I would add to you, feel like this is one of the wonderful things about psychedelics is that they really help you explore more duality, more multiplicity, more pluralism. And really it's about holding it with this humility of being able to hold all of these things that would otherwise be contradictory, being able to have space for the paradoxical. And it's not only differing opinions from different people, but also inside oneself and being able to recognize that I might feel one way and simultaneously feel a completely different way and multiple things at the same time. That's very true. All right. So number five, if we have to cut that big ass step out of there, Bryan. Nope. That big ass pause. want everyone to feel that awkward pause. All right. So number five. This one was kind of interesting. I've actually discovered, you know, this one was just after all the time of running the subreddit. I see, you know, this kind of goes back to what we were talking about just now, but you see a lot of egos come into the psychedelic world. And number five is ego awareness and recognize that psychedelics are tools for exploration and not as a means to justify or to glorify one's ego or promote personal deification. So yeah, don't use psychedelics to make your own ego bigger. Try to, you know, run a cult or whatever it is. It's, you know, these are about growth for people. I'm imagining one person out there right now that's like, son of a bitch. But now I'm definitely. Yeah, Jim Jones is going to have to put away the flavor aid. I think this again is like I just kind of said this about humility but this is really one of the things that with which psychedelics really help is being able to like connect to something larger than oneself. Like there's such a natural like not only dissolution of ego in the terms of actual like ego death in the more extreme kind of way but like these natural dissolutions of ego where you allow yourself to just kind of relax into there's something greater than myself maybe I feel interconnected. connected to nature, connected to the people around me, to animals, to a greater expanse of the universe, just feeling more connected and allowing that ego to just naturally relax. Yeah, it actually kind of brings, there's an interesting point that I talked about a while back that there was an article that was, I think it was a medium or salon or something that was talking about how some people, they lose that ego, they break it apart, they become part of the greater community. And there's some, that it does the exact opposite almost. Like the technocrats and the stuff that we hear about now, Silicon Valley a lot of times, a lot of the ego. I feel like a lot of that comes from just their intention, what they're taking into it. and this is why psychedelics and substances are non-specific amplifiers. I mean, they're going to amplify whatever is there. It's not specifically going to make, it's not going to generate empathy for everybody. If someone is not capable of empathy, it's not going to suddenly magically make it exist in them. If they are more of a narcissist or sociopath, it's just going to dial that up. It's going to amplify whatever is already there. Yeah, but I think I would think that they're there. They could be used as tools to maybe break through some of those personality or disorders. I know that, you know, they early and it was late in the 50s that LSD was real big for alcoholism being studied. I feel like maybe with a lot of those and could be associated with personality disorders, I almost feel like those could be studied more. But. the way everything's been illegal for so long. Yeah, I agree. I'm optimistic about that as well. I know not everybody is, but yeah, I share that optimism and I, in general, as a therapist, I hold a lot more hope for change and transformation for people with personality disorders. I think sometimes people don't hold that same kind of hope. I feel like if you have a personality disorder, you'll have it your whole life. I don't necessarily hold that view. And I think a lot of times it's rooted in trauma, rooted in things that are painful. Those are the exact things with which psychedelics really help you. Yeah, and I have some experience with it because younger on, was undiagnosed with autism for a long time. I don't think I was diagnosed until I was almost 40. So, you know, early on I had heard that someone had said I was narcissistic. so I actually came across back from it because I was with my therapist and I told her, was like, you know, I was really worried about it. I was just like, man, am I narcissistic? So I started looking it up and looking at the traits and she goes, well, you know, you can't be. And I was like, why? And she, because the fact that you were worried about it and you went to go look it up so much and you, and, also I said, well, I could see how somebody could think that that could be narcissistic. She's like, the fact that you could identify that and say, I could see how someone could say that just says right there that you're not because a narcissist can't do that. just they're incapable of doing that. And I was like, this made me feel better. And then I about it again. And then it was like, well, you know, that worry is just for their confirmation that you can't be. basically just saying just keep wearing and you'll be great. As long as you're worried that you could be, there's no way you can be. So yeah, so yeah, this is kind of even on the same point earlier with the ego awareness, focus on self discovery while respecting the paths and beliefs of others without judgment. And that kind of goes into all of that, that, you know, all journeys are meaningful and valid, you know, focus on that self discovery. And that's That should hopefully guide your journey a little bit better. Number six, think, is integration and reflection. And I feel like integration is something we don't talk enough about, psychedelics in general. Here recently, I guess the past year or two, it's become a lot more popular to people bringing it up. Yeah, integration. Take time to integrate psychedelic experiences into your daily life through reflection, journaling, therapy, or even group discussions. Use insights gained to foster personal growth, improve relationships, and contribute positively to your community. So, yeah, by taking the time to kind of discuss what you've learned and share it, you know, and integrate that. Take those lessons you've learned, like ego awareness and diversity and inclusion, and integrate that into your personal life. And as you said earlier, like the pragmatic philosophical approach. Yeah, we'll have to do another podcast solely about integrations. This is one of my favorite topics and I have a lot to say about it. But yeah, integration I think is one the most important things, not only for a psychedelic experience, but for just life in general. feel like we often skip over integration, don't do enough reflection or think about what something means. And as little side note, I have this whole idea about making life more like a psychedelic. journey in and of itself, like having more intention and preparation leading up to something, thinking about what mindset do I want to adopt if I want to do a certain experience or live my life in a certain way, so being more intentional in general, and then after an experience really milking that and trying to be more able to apply insights that you might have experienced or important emotional shifts, like how to really ground that into sustainable change for one's life. And the integration is a huge part of that where When I work with clients, create, I have this four quadrant model. It's kind of based off of Ken Wilber's integral theory. If anybody's familiar, it's philosophy. Hope it's okay to talk about philosophy, but Ken Wilber, he created integral theory and some of the idea too, especially with the four quadrants, it's loosely based off of a lot of different cultures, especially indigenous cultures, a of Native American cultures from all different parts of the Americas have had some kind of like four quadrant. approach or all these different quadrants of looking at often like mind, body, heart, soul, or some variation of those themes and looking at one's life or one's psychedelic journey through that lens of looking at all of those quadrants to be able to see most intently like what is happening in your life in all of these different areas and where do you want to experience change and based off of the psychedelic experience Did you have certain insights or have emotional releases or things that you can make into actual practices that you can do for each of those quadrants to lead to sustainable change in your life going forward? And one of the things that I talk about with these quadrants is that mind, body, and heart are often about looking at your own life and how you can benefit and what you can do to change to make your life better. And the last quadrant, soul, this is really where you're answering your soul's calling, your soul's purpose. What is the call to action of how you show up in community? How can you be a better person? So you're not just taking and using the psychedelic or using life for your own personal benefit, but also being able to give back. And Ken Wilbur and his theory and integral theory does that as well, where each of the quadrants is a call to action, where it's like wake up, grow up, clean up. and show up. In all of these ways you're also trying to be the best version of yourself for others, not just for your own personal benefit. Yeah, I like that. You've got the different, yeah, you've got the mind, like you said, mind, body, you know, the self and you try to, you know, keep that self. But by doing that, you're able to go to that fourth, the outside and, you know, bring it to the community or bring it to others to, you know, pass it along, you know. Exactly. Bryan. Synergy. Yeah, I feel like I got you bored over there. are you going to Synergy. Corporate buzzwords. Yeah. I was about to try to rifle off as many as I could think of and fell flat on my face. I couldn't think of any other buzzwords. Proactive. Synergy. No, think that's awesome because any time that I've ever done either taking ecstasy or mushrooms or something like that. There's never been any of that like integration at all, ever. And that's always been kind of like why I stay away from that stuff so much now is like, because a lot of times I didn't have a good experience. I would say primarily because I didn't come into it with that kind of mindset and then just kind of went on this journey. was, I was just there to try to party. So, I don't know. I think it's really interesting. I think I have to agree with you that it's super important and probably a step in the process that I'd be willing to try next. And I think it's really important to express to people who haven't tried any of this before. Yeah, that's, mean, that like we'd go back to, I believe, I think it would go back to like your set and setting, what mindset you go into it and, you know, the setting, which can include who you've got around you, you know, what environment are you in? And so I think those are really just, those have been the two kinds of cornerstones. for as long as I can, I think I've even looked into psychedelics is set and setting. I recently, think it was, I mean, not recently, it's been around, but forever. you know, they've, they've talked about having a guide or, you know, helpline or something. So those three have always kind of been the, the cornerstone and yeah, that's, and I think that's kind of what sets the Psychonauta apart too, because everybody goes, I mean, honestly, that's why everybody gets into it. It's cause it's fun. You know, 99 % of people, the reason they like psychedelics is because they heard about them and they're fun. But, you know, we all come to find later that there are extremely powerful tools that can be. And that's the beautiful part about it. You have one more. Yeah. Yeah. Number seven, advocacy and education, which is you work to destigmatize psychedelics through advocacy, education, and open dialogue, which, you know, we're doing tonight and also share evidence-based information to counter myths and misconceptions while respecting legal and cultural boundaries. So, yeah, so that's my seven. think, you know, the advocacy and education, once you've kind of locked down, you know, you feel like you can do it or you're comfortable with it and you like. yeah, I'd like to talk about this. Well then yeah, I find the evidence-based information, be able to share, you know, you can counter those myths. People talk, know, MDMA will burn holes in your brain. Well, no, that was just badly done study with methamphetamine, not molly, you know. So you just have to learn, you know, what you can do and what you can tell. So yeah. and respecting legal and cultural boundaries. I know that's not going to happen all the time, but you got to do it when you can. For instance, I think a big one especially is peyote. People really need to respect the buttons. Synthetic mescaline is just as good. There's no reason to go out into the desert and take the sacred medicine from people. So it's a balance. And it's all about, like you said, it's the humility and respect. And I think with all those, you know, kind of together, I think it, you know, it'll help you out and it'll be a good little make for a good trip. Yeah, I think with the advocacy too, this is a big one for me. I often talk about and think about and feel into a lot. I think with advocacy, can't really, this is one of those areas where I feel like we're not all free until we're all free. And we have to acknowledge, like there's a lot of politics and psychedelics and the whole psychedelic revolution and the war on drugs. We can't really talk about psychedelics without acknowledging the harms that have befallen, especially certain groups of people. And I think it's wonderful how much access a lot of people have to psychedelics now and to substances in general. And until we start to right some of those wrongs and have some restorative justice, I don't think we can consider this a win. So I think for people who are able to, and there might be like little ways that we can all do this, even if it's just spreading awareness of acknowledging how black and brown people have been policed. way more heavily are still continuing to be police. We're not anywhere near close to being free. We need to change some of these policies that came from the war on drugs, all of these smear campaigns that have happened culturally, especially to black and brown people, help correct what has been happening and is still happening to Indigenous peoples. We need to acknowledge these things. And I don't think we can be respectful psychedelic users without acknowledging that. Right, yeah, and just acknowledging that and saying, yeah, this has been part of the problem for a long time. we have to respect that. They have also respect that they had come from different backgrounds as well. And we're all not going to have the same background or same reaction to certain things or triggers. So part of all just balancing all that, I guess. you Any yeah, I think that's good. I think we're going to cut that here. We're going to stick around and talk to Valerie a little bit more. We'll throw it up on Patreon later, but we'll take a break here and come back. I will have a little chat with Valerie. Be sure to subscribe to the Patreon, patreon.com Divergent States. And we'll be back out there. you you you you You lost. you Welcome back guys. that was our talk with Valerie Beltran and kind of the seven principles of a psychedelic or a psychonaut experience. And that was a fun conversation. We had a good time. yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So she's, she has, she has that really, she's just kind of a good grounding space there, I feel like, you know, and yeah, I really feel like that way it's just not. You know, us kind of talking bullshit. We have a professional there to check us. So yeah, it was a real fun conversation. You guys want to hear the rest of that conversation? There's a good, probably what half an hour, right? of us just kind of talking and chatting with Valerie, go to divergence or, go to patreon.com/divergentstates for there. We have extra content. There's some videos up. throw up there. yeah, if you guys are listening on Spotify or apple, rate us. share with your friends. Yeah. If you enjoy what you hear, us that five star rating. Yeah. Yeah. If you feel like it's added any value to what you do or your, your knowledge on psychedelics, please help us out. And don't forget that you can also help to, you can help us out to get to the psychedelic news conference by going over to patreon.com as well. Yeah. Psychedelic science 25. mean, MAPS has helped us out so much. They're basically giving us access to any of the speakers there. So if you guys want to hear from somebody who's going to be speaking at Psychedelic Science 25, throw something in the comments. Shoot us a comment. We're going to try and get everybody. Patreon, you guys, they're going to get the top pick on who we're going to pick for speakers, all their questions. We're going to try and get them for all them. But we're going to try and get everybody in the comments and everybody from YouTube or Spotify or wherever you're listening at. So yeah. Well, thank you, guys. So yeah, music tonight is Flintwick and you guys support him. He's at Flintwick. Great musician. Yeah. If you guys have any music you want to throw our way, hit us up and also DM, send us a comment, let us know. Email us DivergentStates at gmail.com. Yeah. Hit us up, keep exploring and have fun. Yeah. Catch you guys next time.