Wendy Tucker on the Shulgin Legacy & the Future of the Farm: Preserving Psychedelic History

In this profound episode of Divergent States, we welcome Wendy Tucker, daughter of Ann Shulgin and stepdaughter of the legendary Sasha Shulgin, the "Godfather of Ecstasy." Wendy shares intimate stories of growing up at the iconic Shulgin Farm, working alongside Sasha in his lab, and her mission to preserve their legacy through the Shulgin Foundation.

Key Topics Covered:

• Sasha’s Lab & Humble Genius: Wendy recounts behind-the-scenes moments with Sasha, his playful humor, and the creation of 200+ psychedelic compounds.
• The Farm’s Future: Why the Shulgin property is being preserved as a living community space—not a museum—with plans for workshops, events, and even weddings.
• MDMA’s Therapeutic Roots: How Leo Zeff and Ann Shulgin pioneered underground therapy, and why veterans are now leading the charge for healing.
• Transform Press: Updates on Sasha’s lecture series, The Nature of Drugs, and other rare archival projects.
• How to Get Involved: Supporting the foundation’s mission to protect psychedelic history and foster education.

Perfect for: Psychonauts, historians, therapy advocates, and anyone curious about the intersection of science, culture, and cognitive liberty.

Links & Resources:

• Donate or learn more: shulginfoundation.org
• Follow Divergent States for more deep dives: [Instagram/YouTube] @DivergentStates]

Subscribe now to explore the minds and movements shaping psychedelics today!

Thank you to all the Guests, Patreon supporters, music submissions, and all the wonderful people that come together to make this thing happen! We couldn't be doing this without YOU!

Big thank you Bryan, Dylalien, Flintwick, Ach, and Brad of Integration Communications!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Shulgin Legacy
03:00 Wendy Tucker's Journey and the Shulgin Foundation
06:04 The Importance of the Shulgin Farm
08:55 Community Engagement and Events
11:50 Women and Psychedelics: The Deva Collective
15:00 Personal Reflections and Lessons from the Shulgins
17:53 MDMA Therapy and Veterans' Healing
21:01 Education and Stigma in Psychedelic Use
24:01 Supporting the Shulgin Foundation
26:58 Future Initiatives and Community Building
29:49 Transform Press and Preserving Knowledge
33:03 Balancing Legacy and Modern Research
35:46 Conclusion and Future Outlook

Transcript

3L1T3 (00:15.534)
Hey guys, welcome back to Divergent States, the unofficial psychonaut podcast. I'm 3L1T3, your host back with Brian. Hey man. How you doing? to, good. Just kind of going back and forth, been doing, trying to get some interviews lined up with people and some big names. I hope when it comes through for everyone, it'd be great. So today we've got a Wendy Tucker. She's the, and Shulgan's daughter, the Shulgan foundation, Alexander.

doing pretty good, about you?

3L1T3 (00:44.994)
known as Sasha Shulgin and his wife, you know, were together. She runs, but Wendy Tucker now runs Transform Press and the Shulgin Foundation. And yeah, she'll be joining us today and we'll both be here for this one. And yeah, we'll listen to a little bit of music and you guys thank you again for everybody who's joined on the Patreon. Keep it coming. Keep joining. Everybody knew. I love to see it.

That's right.

3L1T3 (01:13.326)
We keep it up. We'll hopefully be able to go to Denver and in June, it'd be a great opportunity for everyone. I'm talking to the people at Maps, hopefully even get some more bigger names on the show and keep the word and keep everything going. So we'll hear some music and be back in a second.

Speaker 1 (02:05.966)
you

3L1T3 (02:09.55)
you

you

3L1T3 (02:29.678)
you

3L1T3 (02:38.538)
you

How are you?

You're doing great. Thank you so much for having me.

Awesome. You're welcome. We'd love to have you here. So could you start by giving us a little about your background and how you started to lead the Shulgin Foundation?

Yeah, Anne Shulgin's my mom. I met Sasha when I was probably about 17, 18. I was just finishing high school when they got together and then got married. And worked with Sasha Shulgin for some time after traveling the world a bit.

Speaker 1 (03:35.778)
Yeah, it was such an honor to be with him in the lab, in the office, and working with him. So now that both Anne and Sasha have passed, I've been on a mission to preserve the Shulgin Farm because it's such an important place in history, really.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right, I agree with that. so leading to that, for those who might not be very familiar, can you tell us about the mission of the Shulgin Farm, the Shulgin Foundation, and why it's important?

Yeah, well, you know, don't know if some people know about the Shulgens, some people don't. The Shulgens were a really amazing couple. My mom was very interested in psychology and psychotherapy and spirituality, and Sasha was an amazing chemist, an amazing scientist. And so they really balanced each other out beautifully and did

some very important work. Sasha created over 200 novel compounds in his little lab in Lafayette. And my mom did a lot of therapy with some of the compounds that he created and some others that, know, MDMA he did not create, but he did kind of take it off the shelves and dust it off and.

Speaker 1 (05:05.356)
recreate it so that's why they call him the godfather of ecstasy not the father of ecstasy. They didn't like that term by the way ecstasy they really yeah to them it was a much more serious thing and it's such an amazing tool so.

That's one of the, one of the first stories I remember hearing was about, giving it, I believe it was to couples counselors in Dallas and that area back in, think the early eighties or something. I don't know if you can correct me on that or not. And that's kind of where the whole boom started. If I remember correctly.

Well, you know, they gave it to a very dear friend who was a therapist named Leo Zeff. Leo had been doing therapy, think psychedelic therapy, even with some other substances before, but he was kind of ready to retire. And when Sasha

re-synthesized MDMA. He gave it to Leo and Leo came out of retirement. He was like, okay, this is the tool that I have been looking for and started training other therapists on how to use it in therapy. He was an incredible person and trained hundreds of people in the most secret way. mean, people who are still around who are trained by him do not talk about it. They do not talk about.

the training, they don't talk about the people involved, it's high security.

3L1T3 (06:37.194)
Well, and it's interesting, you really were only seeing the fruition of that today, like with the FDA trials and stuff, it's finally come into the mainstream, but it took, you know, 50 years to get here.

Right, well this work was going on in the underground for so long and it would still be that way and maybe even still be, or maybe legalized by now if it had taken a different route. But as it happens, it ended up in the club scene and that was the Dallas connection. It was being given out and sold in bars and ending up in raves. I mean, it's an amazing...

thing to dance on, do grant you that, but it's an even more amazing tool for really going in and exploring oneself and getting through trauma or even just to better oneself. yeah, and my mom did a lot of therapy with MDMA and 2CB and other things. And these compounds are incredible.

for self-exploration, for self-improvement. You don't have to have trauma to benefit from using them. But boy, when you do have things that you need to deal with, there's really nothing like it. when my mom passed, Sasha passed in 2014, it was just 10 years ago. When my mom passed two years ago, I felt like,

This place, the farm, was so important with Sasha's lab in the backyard. He developed over 200 novel compounds there. The research group used to do their work at the house, researching the things that he was creating and making the reports about it. And the idea of just letting this property and the lab go was, yeah, I just couldn't see that happen. And the family was so supportive. Everybody realizes this is very important.

Speaker 1 (08:47.874)
historical place and so it needs to be preserved so that's what we're doing.

That's awesome. Yeah, I've been watching on Instagram a lot and then seeing some of the work you guys have been doing. What would you say was the kind of the turning point for you that led to your like the just the deep involvement in with the foundation and getting this all going?

It's just the feeling and the knowledge that this place needs to be preserved. And so how are we going to do that? I have been working with a guy named Peter Vitale for the last two and a half, almost two years, year and a half, two years. And we went through many iterations of how we could do this. We thought about perpetual purpose trust model.

some other sort of like models where the whole community owns the space because it is such a community space. It's been that for over 40 years where a lot of the psychedelic community not only has come through there but has gathered there over the years for various parties or whatever. so it's, just, after a lot of back and forth, we figured,

Nonprofit is the best format to have this in. So yeah, it's been a long road. feels like at this point, just figuring out the format, we've had this nonprofit in place for just a year now, and we're fundraising to transfer the property to the nonprofit so that it can stay in the nonprofit indefinitely. Because I'm just, looking at this place and thinking about 100 years, 200 years from now, and people being able to see the lab and see where all this happened and

Speaker 1 (10:34.328)
feel the history there, because you really do when you get to the place, you feel it.

It's some place, yeah, it's some place I really wanted to see myself eventually one day.

Awesome.

Well, you should definitely come.

That's on our list. Hopefully we do that.

Bryan (10:57.454)
Yeah, that'd be great.

Mm-hmm, please. it's, mean, what we're doing now is we're developing programs there. We've had some third party events, Zendo and Mycelial Network, and yeah, they've had some events there, the Deva Collective as well.

And so we're doing these third party events there to utilize the place. this is another thing. I didn't feel like this place should be a museum where people come and it's just hands off. It should be a living, breathing, functioning place for the community. So actually, we have some workshops coming up and classes and lectures planned. So it's I really want to make it that sort of place where.

Small groups can come and learn mostly and share information, have meetings, whatever. It just feels like this place is for the people. And so we're really getting that going. It is really exciting what's happening. We have a lot planned for 2025. So working it out.

3L1T3 (12:17.673)
Awesome. Yeah, I noticed that I was going to say one of your credit for the foundation we talked about, I think I talked to you guys and emailed you about was the David collective with women and psychedelics. Could you tell us a little bit more about that and what inspired that and what's the main goals around that?

That was a fantastic group that met there. It wasn't our event. Deva Collective put this on and got some speakers and talked about women's health and how in, I learned a lot that day actually. Traditionally, know.

Some cultures have used psychedelics, or mushrooms in particular, during pregnancy, during later parts of pregnancy, or for perimenopause. So there's ways that some of these things have been used over the centuries by different cultures for health purposes. so, yeah, we had about 60 people, I think it was, met in the barn. And it was a...

The barn is this big structure on the property. It is sort of our meeting place. And it was a fantastic day. Really good response from people. So, the collective was one and I look forward to many, many more like that.

was going to say, yeah, you've got a couple initiatives going there, seeing you guys talk about and showing it. It just really exciting. kind of responses have you seen so far for a lot of these initiatives?

Speaker 1 (13:52.152)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:58.254)
Well, I I've been so focused on just our creating this foundation and fundraising primarily right now that what's happening out in the world as the ripple effect goes out, I'm not even really aware of. not paying much attention to it, but all I know is that we are a place that these people can come and share the information and

do whatever they are doing and it feels really good to be a part of that and be able to host that on such a piece of property that's so meaningful, right? Because that's the thing about the farm is that what's happened there is meaningful and so people coming to gather and share information and yeah, it means a lot to people. think...

you know in the future I'm even thinking about weddings like could you imagine getting married on Shulgin farm how great would that be?

That would be amazing.

I can see it now.

Speaker 1 (15:02.284)
Yeah.

That would be great. It's I mean, it's it's really exciting, you know, to just preserve this piece of history, the the farm. Just all the stories I've heard, you know, you hear coming out, you know, the title and Michael that, you know, you grew up there and it's really just iconic. Do you have any memories from growing up there that kind of influenced your your path and.

Well, like I said, I met Sasha when I was about 17. So I had already done a little bit of my own research with some of these things before then. And I got to participate in a little bit of the research of his compounds that he was making and make my reports. And that was really an honor to do that.

Yeah.

Working with Sasha was great. He was such a patient teacher, because I'm not a chemist, but I helped him in the lab. And he was so great at just showing me what to do and teaching me what was happening. And he would get in the lab, and he was like a kid in a candy store. He was so happy. I was really excited about what he was doing.

3L1T3 (16:23.906)
Gotta do what you love, huh?

If you love, it's true. The universe sort of conspires to help you when you do that. And I really think that happened with Sasha. He definitely was a man on a mission, for sure. And the universe did conspire to help him. He was really prolific in his work.

I love that saying too, by the way, that the universe is conspiring to help you. Such a good one.

So do you have any good stories from back when you used to work with Sasha in the lab?

You know, was, on one hand it was just work, you know, we had fun. We'd come into the lab, I don't know if you've seen pictures of the lab, but it's not very big. It's this cinder block little building and it's crowded and it's cold. He would build a fire in the fireplace. It was an open fireplace when I was working with him there. Turn on the classical music.

Speaker 1 (17:22.761)
things are bubbling and boiling and going and we would just work in there and he would show me what to do and then we would go to the office and it was either the office or the lab and sometimes fixing something on the house but he was just, yeah, he was really a funny, interesting person to be around. was incredibly funny. I don't know if you've ever seen him speaking or seen videos of him but he did have a pretty

silly sense of humor, really a lot of word play. So yeah, even working just doing the research work with him in the office was fun to do because he was a sweet person to be around. being around my mom too, you know, it was really a wonderful thing to be able to spend time with both of them. It wasn't my full-time gig, I was also selling jewelry that I was...

bringing in from Asia and doing my gypsy thing. So yeah, I feel really lucky to have had that experience.

That, yeah, it sounds, I mean, yeah, I really, I can't imagine growing up in your place, growing up on the Shulgin farm, it'd be surreal to me. Are there any lessons from your mother and Shulgin that have stayed with you that kind of guide your work today?

You know, from both of them, there was incredible humility and they were so down to earth. Didn't think that highly of themselves really. You know, they were very humble and super respectful of other people and of each other. It didn't matter where you came from, what degree you had or not. Sasha was...

Speaker 1 (19:17.326)
100 % there and so was my mom. So they were really both very open and incredibly present that way with anybody who came around. so that's a great modeling, right? And Sasha said something when we worked in the lab that's always stuck with me, you said, you know, you don't learn by things going right. You only really learn things when things go wrong. So you embrace it, you know.

So true.

Right? And with the chemist, like, that was pretty incredible to hear him saying that in the middle of some reaction that he's doing. It's like, okay, well, if it doesn't work out, it's like cooking a stew, you know? If it doesn't work out, you try again, you know what to do next time a little differently. yeah, that was a good lesson.

Yeah, he oh, sorry, I just had a little my brain went somewhere else for a second. Yeah, yeah. yeah. I can't. Yeah. Let me just go. So you're you know, you talked about the community and how, know, just that openness. Oh, that's what that's what it was. You know, you talk about the. You know that that sometimes it's the the more harsh.

You know, the, the, the, goes wrong, as you just said, is that's what you learn. Nothing ever, you never learned from what goes right. I it kind of, that kind of relates to psychedelic trips as well. I mean, cause a lot of times those, you don't really learn anything from just the good fun times. You just having fun, you know, it's, it's, it's not much learning there, but it's sometimes when you have those deeper kind of struggles, the inner struggles that you learn more about yourself. And so it kind of relates to that too.

Speaker 1 (21:01.102)
Thank you much.

And I know Brian's been real interested with the especially with MDMA therapy for veterans. Absolutely. Yeah, he's a military veteran himself. So we're talking to I think the vets, Amber Capone and from vets, doing some MDMA therapy. So yeah, it's really exciting to see how far that's come. Yeah. In just all that time.

Yeah, it's a, I really love that MDMA has found its way into working with veterans in that way. mean, thanks to MAPS and the work they've been doing. Yeah, I mean, people could say, well, know, it's sort of the medicalization as a pathway to just trying to get it accessible for everyone. What I don't really, I mean, just me, don't, I think it's incredibly important work.

And if anybody deserves healing, man, it's veterans. I know some incredible veterans. I work in the chiropractic office and we treat a few and incredible, sweet, wonderful people. they've really given themselves over. yeah, it's great that there's some giving back.

that the Veterans Administration is helping to sort of push that through because it's needed, really needed.

3L1T3 (22:33.846)
is.

absolutely. And in the military, they put a big stigma around all this stuff, you know, especially, things like cannabis and all these other things, but they promote drinking and this is the kind of wrong mindset, I would say. And then when you get out and you get an opportunity to try some of these things, you have this completely different experience. It can be life changing. And I think it's important that veterans have access to that because, I mean, it's just not available to them.

Yeah. And like you said, with the stigma around it, I'm sure there's a lot of fear. Well, you know, there's a lot of fear around trying these things anyway, be a veteran or not. Right. Right. You know, and healthy fear. People should be cautious. People should be wary and really go into it with full intention. This is not what it's such to say. There are no casual experiments. None. So.

these things need to be treated with reverence and treated seriously. yeah, think that given many, well, many, many years from now, I think the stigma of these things will start to drop away as people really understand how healing they can be. And I am looking forward to a day, and this is where Sasha was just, he was such an advocate of.

education. If you don't educate people about the good, the bad, and the ugly about everything, you're not giving them the information. So you need to tell people the truth, which is, well, these things feel amazing. You can have great experience at all the good things that you can say about them, and they're dangerous. And if you have a heart condition, they can be especially dangerous. Any of the negative things, if you

Speaker 1 (24:31.264)
are a little on the edge mentally, you should not be touching them, know, whatever it is. The education about these things is so important.

Yeah, that's something we've been real try to be real big advocates on on the subreddit is, know, set setting guide. I'll try to get these straight. If you can do those and kind of, you know, get that, get those started and, you know, start correctly from the beginning. You're, more even if it does become a more difficult time, you're still going to be prepared for that. That's kind of the point of that.

Integration, Integration is great. There are so many stories of people working with somebody and then like the next day they're just set free. Like, hey, that's it. You had your experience. That to me, like kind of shocking. Integration is such a big part of this. You need to be talking about the experience, not be sort of left on one's own. So I'm sure that is going to be

shifting and changing over time too and people will understand how important that is.

Well, and people having access to like a psychedelic therapist, approved a therapist and stuff, and that's becoming more mainstream and approved now, that's going to help a lot with that as well, I think. I hope so. speaking of, yeah, I I do too. Speaking of which, so how could the the Psychonaut community and our other listeners out there better support the work of the Shulgin Foundation and its different initiatives?

Speaker 1 (26:02.88)
Yeah, shulkinfoundation.org is our website and we are, you know, we are adding more to that and getting it filled out as much as we can. We're a small, lean and mean team. We're really working hard to get everything together and as we have events, that's definitely, we're posting events on our social media.

Shulgin Foundation, Instagram and Facebook, Sasha Shulgin Facebook also. And so eventually we'll have any events that we're having also posted on the website so that people can see what's coming up in classes and whatnot. But, you know, right now it's about support. Financial support is really what we need because we're.

The reason we're fundraising is to transfer the property into the nonprofit. And until that piece is done, well, that's what we're working on. And so then after that, it's gonna be a different story of just how much more we can do there. And not just at the farm though. This is the thing about the Shulgin Foundation is yes, it's place centric. Yes, the farm is a special place and that's where all this happened.

No, we're gonna be out in the world doing other things too, bringing Sasha's work out into the world somehow, mom and Sasha. Mom was a really incredible therapist. She was an incredible person, very well read, very educated. And she worked with other therapists, helping them sort of figure out what to do in these problems situations. She had a great intuitive sense for these things. So.

There's a lot that can happen with just what mom and Sasha did to bring to other people in the world. I don't even know yet what it's gonna be. But there's, yeah, there's a long, good, beautiful future here. I'm really happy that it's happening because this was a dream a couple of years ago and it's really solidifying and it's real. And, you know, our...

Speaker 1 (28:23.53)
Main goal is to make sure that the farm's preserved. Yes, but it's also really about the community and keeping this community together and in touch with each other and learning from each other and helping each other. This is the main point of it and I feel like there's not enough of that. I think everything's so segmented, you know, in this community and the bigger it gets, which it's happening pretty fast.

think the more important it is to have some central locations or ways that people can communicate and share information and be together, especially face to face. There's something about being in physical presence with other people that are like-minded.

Yeah, community is a huge part of any real, I guess, organization or community in and of itself. You just have to have the community to move anywhere, really. And I guess the more segmented it is, like you say, you really can't get anywhere with it. And it is just getting bigger. We're getting places more and more people come in.

Are there any opportunities for people to get involved beyond donations, like volunteering or participating in events?

The best thing to do is to reach out through the website to info at shulginfoundation.org and if somebody really feels moved to help out somehow, just write. We've had some people reach out and they've been helping with the archive project because there's a huge archive project that's going on with all of Sasha's work, Sasha and my mom's work. But Sasha was just so prolific. was insane.

3L1T3 (30:19.555)
I can't imagine how many notes and stuff around there he must have.

drawers and drawers, file cabinets full of communication and research and articles and anything that he, if there was a certain compound he was interested in, he would collect everything about that. It's not just what he was doing, it's like anything anybody was writing about it, yeah, articles, whatever, it didn't matter. So it's an incredible library of information there.

So the Erawits have been spearheading that for the last many years and we're really closing in on the end of it. Right now we're just cataloging, or they are cataloging the books and then there's still some media to digitize. But my gosh, it's an incredible array of, assortment of stuff. And so eventually all these archives, or most of it, will go to Bancroft Library in Berkeley.

We've been in touch with them. They want the archive. We want it to be there. I'm really hoping that we can build out the whole psychedelic archive there at Berkeley. And talking to some people about that, think it's the Bay Area needs that and Berkeley's the place. So, yeah, so having the Shulgin archives there, there can be a lot of other archives that can join that.

That's sort of my vision, but.

3L1T3 (31:55.136)
I mean, isn't that where they say Bear taught himself to make LSD back in the 60s? I mean, what a great place for it.

Sasha was in school there and he taught there.

Yeah. Gosh, yeah. So how do you balance preserving the legacy of your parents with adapting to the new and evolving landscape around psychedelic research?

You know, I don't even know how to answer that. I'm so focused on just what I'm doing. Honestly, honestly, it's really, you know, and I also run Transform Press, which.

my gosh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:35.293)
The book company that mom and Sasha created because nobody would publish Picall. Picall and Ticall. So Picall, A Chemical Love Story was their first book and it was just so 1991, the climate then, nobody wanted to touch it. It was full of recipes on how to create these things. was a little too hot for these publishing houses. So they started their own publishing company and

T-Call, the first one, T-Call the Continuation, and now we've done the Nature of Drugs books. I don't know if you've seen those, but oh, they're great. I haven't seen those. So Sasha taught, he taught a lot at different places, but San Francisco State, he had this class called The Nature of Drugs. And my mom came with him to this particular course in 1986, and with her cassette recorder, and every class she would just.

you know, hit record and record the whole class. So we have this whole course in cassette tapes and it took a lot of work to get it to a readable form. But we have volume one and volume two out right now and we still have volume three which will be the last one yet to publish. these books are incredible because it's a class but it wasn't like you didn't need to know any chemistry to take it or.

to understand it because it was really an entry-level class. And it was Sasha at his best talking about politics and cognitive liberty and chemistry and plants and all of the things that he loved. so these books were really special to put out because you can really hear Sasha's voice when you're reading it. If you're familiar with him, you can almost hear him. But for those who haven't,

seen him lecture or seen videos of him, he's just incredibly entertaining to read and incredibly knowledgeable. So...

3L1T3 (34:40.846)
Yeah, I definitely want to look for those. That sounds really good.

Yeah, they're really, I've learned a lot by working on them and they're wonderful books. So yeah, so to get back to the question, like I'm just so focused on this project of preserving the property and sort of building out our programs. And then Transform Press is, you know, taking a little bit of a backseat right now because there's only so many hours in a day.

Right, right. Not only so many of you, right?

None of us can do these things alone. I have such incredible people I'm working with.

Right. Speaking of that, where can people go to learn more about the foundation, stay updated, get involved?

Speaker 1 (35:30.798)
Shulginfoundation.org and that's S-H-U-L-G-I-N Shulginfoundation.org

Awesome. Are there any specific programs or events you're currently fundraising or excited about?

Well, we're having a donor appreciation event that we're planning right now. And that's really exciting to me because I have felt really like a little like, you know, I want to do something for the people who've already given and the people who will be giving. And so that's coming up. And we have classes that we're starting. Paul Daly, who Sasha sort of mentored. mean, he was a chemist anyway, but Sasha sort of took him under his wing when he was starting to fail.

So kind of passing the torch to him a bit. So Paul Daly's doing some classes and that's going to be really fun. yeah, there's a whole bunch of things coming up. can't even really think about it right now. I'm excited mostly for classes, cactus classes, cactus cultivation classes.

I think I did sell something about that, about safe extraction methods or something like that. That sounds really interesting.

Speaker 1 (36:46.542)
And there will be no illegal activity on the farm. We can't do that, but there's other ways to learn these things and apply them how one wants to.

Correct, correct. that's awesome. That's kind of all the the base questions I had for anything. Brian, you got anything?

No, that was great. Thanks for joining us today.

Yeah, it's really my pleasure. It's really good to meet you both and to be on and yeah.

I'm excited to have you here. I just really just started this a little while ago and it's just kind of snowballed since with a bunch of amazing guests and you said it yourself and it's just I'm real excited to get it on and get these voices into the community.

Speaker 1 (37:31.726)
Yeah, well, best of luck. You're doing great work. is information, right? Sharing information and educating people. so thanks for what you're

Advocacy and now you're with me. Thank you advocacy advocacy and education. That's that's what we can do and Yeah, I love it. Well again, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I hope we'll be able to hopefully talk to you again sometime and You know, maybe hopefully we'll get an AMA going sometime. Yeah Anything yeah, that'd be great. So yeah, we're looking to hopefully February sometime for that

Yeah, I'm looking.

Speaker 1 (38:12.91)
you

Speaker 1 (38:16.846)
you

3L1T3 (40:07.184)
you

Speaker 1 (40:13.55)
you

Speaker 1 (41:34.414)
you

Speaker 1 (41:57.55)
you

you

you

Hey guys, welcome back in. So that was our interview with Wendy Tucker.

dude, that was great. I had such a fun time talking with Wendy.

3L1T3 (42:10.988)
Yeah, she's she has a really cool story to tell.

Dude, absolutely. So you mentioned something about Bear. Who is Bear?

So Bear was Owsley Stanley. He was the sound man for the Grateful Dead. OK. Yeah, he taught himself how to make LSD in the library at Berkeley. I think over the course of like two weeks, taught himself. And I think it was stated that his life's goal was to make the world's most pure LSD.

Yeah. He really enjoyed doing that. I mean, he, the reason they called him bear, he went on a, what was he, he went on a carnivorous diet for awhile. Okay. Yeah. The Grateful Dead stayed with him in LA, for a few months, I think one time. And they said they got so tired of it because that's all he had in his refrigerator was just meat. Yeah.

yeah. Dude, I can completely relate to that. I love protein, but sometimes you need a little something else on the side.

3L1T3 (43:17.174)
Right. little fiber in your diet. So yeah, that's a bear. And yeah, he is real famous in the dead community for his belt buckles. They're still really, really prized. Yeah. He made a bunch of belt buckles. He would sell them on lot before and after shows.

We should get a collection of anybody that's in the subreddit that has one of these belt buckles. You've got to take a picture and post it.

Right. Post up your Owsley buckles. Right. Well, thank you guys for listening. Thank you for supporting the show. guys, Patreon. Thank you so much. You guys keep rocking it out. We're still working on the psychedelic science 2025. Hopefully we'll hear back from them soon and talking about maybe becoming a community partner with them.

which will really help us out to be able to go and get some really nice access back there. yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. Gosh, yeah. So yeah, we're going to be talking to Dale Alian. He did the intro music and he talks about some of the, these, what was the big like three day sets and say, know, that go a Gil, I think, was that it that he used to.

do the festivals with.

Bryan (44:43.625)
Right, yeah, that was a really cool conversation too.

Right. It kind of got delayed a little bit with Rick's conversation coming in and, know, sorry about that, Dill, but, you know, Dill alien, but we're, you know, trucking along and, you know, still working on guests. We've got some big guests in the works. So, hope to hear, you know, you guys keep supporting us, keep, sharing on social media, Instagram, Facebook, tick tock, join on the Patreon guys. We got,

Got a few people on there, but we're going to need more if we're going to get to Denver. So yeah, join on the Patreon. Brian's going to quit his job, we're going to need a lot more people on the Patreon. So, so thanks guys. Keep exploring and we'll see you again pretty soon.

We gotta make it happen.